Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

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Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by dumbassking on Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:19 am

1)lower the graphics level...

(ever had problems microing around with huge ass towers blocking u? or lag?).

2)make text+descriptions aka tooltips look nice.

(more people will play? I dont know lol but it certainly feels better).

3)make game more user friendly...

(I still dont know why there are 2 blinks on some units)

4)Increase range at which towers can be fixed, nerf the repair rate by a bit to balance this.

(I really dont think humans should die trying to fix their tower because the game decided to make him run outside)

5)Make lich free to makesince nobody uses him.

(also nerf his spells by alot and weaken him)

6)Try to make build menu of humans easier.

(Remove useless buildings such as Tents, make a upgrade that could be used to unlock buildings such as high level walls,towers,and goldmines.Also maybe make Hotkeys into qwer or zxcv format so its easier to micro)

7)Remove Super builder + goblin builder if above could be done + improve engineer spell from slayers(lower cd), reduce cost of cloned humans.

8)Add the ability of vamps being able to raise a army through hiring mercenaries.

(I have always thought this as a second way to play vampires however it was never truly balanced and that was probably why sammm removed it...)

I thought these things will make the game alot more playable and noobie friendly(I really miss the good old days when VS was hosted ALOT) They also wont change the game alot because no major changes will be made(items/spells).

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Last edited by dumbassking on Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:39 am; edited 4 times in total
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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by Greg on Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:41 am

We don't adapt the game to the players... The players adapt to the game.

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by dumbassking on Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:01 am

You know i used to think like that but thats just bull crap nobody is gonna try to adapt to the game if the game isnt easy to adapt to.

The point is to make more people play the game, that is the whole point of making a map isnt it? for it to be enjoyed by everyone, for it to entertain them and for them to have fun. Its always about the player.

When I first made the map I made sure it created a feeling and gave an effect on the player.

The map was supposed to instill fear and paranoia in people(why have a vampirism map that isnt scary?), and of course for people to have fun in the process.

I believe once a map captures a feeling it could be declared a piece of art wouldnt you agree?
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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by dumbassking on Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:50 am

I like epic speeches Very Happy
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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by Greg on Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:19 pm

We don't adapt the game to the players... The players adapt to the game.

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by dumbassking on Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:56 pm

Greg wrote:We don't adapt the game to the players... The players adapt to the game.

2 can play that game
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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by Xunlix on Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:09 pm

At first I was failing hard out at the new VS but then I adapted =D
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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by Greg on Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:43 pm

How do you think I learned how to play? I just came on the forum and talked to people and played the map to learn. If you play play play and talk talk talk to people you learn how to play. None of these changes are necessary. The graphics level I don't care about.

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by alvinchiew on Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:52 pm

1)lower the graphics level...

(ever had problems microing around with huge ass towers blocking u? or lag?).

i never had that problem, however stacking 800 goldmines at a spot and a slayer Invuls that area, your PC 100% will hang.

2)make text+descriptions aka tooltips look nice.

(more people will play? I dont know lol but it certainly feels better).

No comment, if noobs cant even read the item description, will they even read these?

3)make game more user friendly...

(I still dont know why there are 2 blinks on some units)

That still a mystery to me.

4)Increase range at which towers can be fixed, nerf the repair rate by a bit to balance this.

(I really dont think humans should die trying to fix their tower because the game decided to make him run outside)

The repair rate if combined like with the whole game humans, supported by slayers and Wall of Healing, the vamp cant even break a Sapphire Wall with no Wall HP upgrades.

5)Make lich free to makesince nobody uses him.

(also nerf his spells by alot and weaken him) \

It is coz lich is a beauty, and nobody understands him =P, his skills are absolute perfect to counter * Clone * =P, it can be your personal slave holding your stuff. and u can actually kill pesky human which likes to blink ( dragging ) the game.

6)Try to make build menu of humans easier.

(Remove useless buildings such as Tents, make a upgrade that could be used to unlock buildings such as high level walls,towers,and goldmines.Also maybe make Hotkeys into qwer or zxcv format so its easier to micro)

Are you trying to beef up humans, instead of nerfing them? making Tents can slow down humans building speed, if you removed it, its like everything spoon feed. And about the hotkeys, i don't think its a problem, your left hand can actually cover most of the hotkeys for building,, you just need some macro skills.

7)Remove Super builder + goblin builder if above could be done +
improve engineer spell from slayers(lower cd), reduce cost of cloned
humans.

If you removed these 2 builders where would the advanced building recipes goes to? the main builder? " improve engineer spell " =.=... have u actually seen a dozen of slayers in action? " reduce cost of cloned
humans " no comment on this, but shouldn't we like increase the cost of it? at that point in game, shouldn't the human like VERY rich?


8)Add the ability of vamps being able to raise a army through hiring mercenaries.

(I have always thought this as a second way to play vampires however it
was never truly balanced and that was probably why sammm removed it...)

What kind of plans you had for the mercenaries, in order to add new units in game, you must estimate when and how much it cost and limits to that unit, other than its abilities, hp, damage.

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by dumbassking on Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:01 am

@greg I am gonna ignore you cause ur too conservative and arent like alvin here who actually bothers to make proper comments.
Dont you just hate pointless arguments that leads to nowhere?

Now then let me explain things more in detail

1)If you build a few(4-5) end comets lv 3 around ur walls and you try to repair ur walls you will see what i mean. they are just too big

Btw I cant help you with goldmines without making some major changes to how gold mines work and I dont want to do that because alot of you dont seem to want change(damn this is beginning to feel like Canadian politics)

2)It cannot hurt can it?

4)when i said i was gonna nerf the repair rate I mean it, the repair skill in wc3 allows you to reduce the effectiveness of group repairs(more then 1 repair person) it also allows you to reduce effectiveness of individual repairers. This can be balanced out(by nerfing alot if needed) and is mainly so that your builder dont bug out and run out of your base while repairing.

Something you might not know is that all builders used to have a ranged repair but I had to remove it because well it was over powered lol(10 humans and 20 super builders repairing 1 wall anyone?), ill try to nerf it alot more this time.

5)Right now lich is way underused, I havent seen anyone use it in pubs...yet which is why I plan to make it free so people will make lich more and try out his skills.

6)I dont know about that beefing up humans... I remeber being able to build 4-5 buildings at the same time...and the macro part is just nice Very Happy
anyways this isnt really necessary.

7)I said if above could be done, that means that I make an upgrade that will enable you to build higher tier towers/walls/etc on your human builder(which will be expensive to balance it out).

8)The plans are to make minions(and upgrades) expensive enough so that the vamp has to either upgrade minions and not buy expensive items(the idea of a weak vamp relying on minions) or have weak minions that do minor damage.

Something else i thought about is to introduce a new class of towers which uses purely magical damage(battleships like), this however requires that magic immunity be changed a bit...and items to increase magic resistance...

Also the nerfs(Item 5,8 ) for Vamps could be reduced so that humans dont get buffed by changes.Its how I balanced things before(trial and error) lol.
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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by alvinchiew on Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:05 am

1) Erm, if i have enough for End game Comets i would upgrade my Wall of Healing to Super Wall of Healing, that is because that time point of the game repairing using your worker ain't enough, and also our worker are still using ranged repair, except for super workers or goblin workers. ( Oops this is actually for number 4 ) the End Games are kinda suppose to be Big in size in order to hide tiny things like our builder inside 1 of the small spaces in between~, and you cant even hide your faerie between them~* i always use this xD.

2) Yea, actually adding it on F9 could be helping newbies from asking HELP PLS WHERE TO BUY GOLD etc~

5) I agree on Lich is underutilized, however if the Lich is available in early game, it can honestly does abit of damage with its skills.

6) lol~

7) Having other type of workers really do have their Pros and Cons, for starters while i am trying to break in a base which doesn't have any strong offense towers, my main objective isn't really breaking in the base, hitting the wall is just to distract the humans away from their harvesters, while my sin slowly assassinates them, if you haven't apply this upgrade yet, humans needs either a super builder to make a comet tower ( better offensive towers ) or upgrade slowly from a lvl 1 tower. which i usually uses a bin laden to destroy the small towers 1st, ok back to the topic.. as you know the new assassin can kills your super builder too, if you are fast enough yo can sin his super workers BEFORE they actually build the offensive towers, from what i am saying is actually you can disable the humans from doing harm to your vamp.

Cool Hmm... We have to test it 1st then we know =P

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by Xunlix on Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:19 am

It would be good if there was "user" friendly tool-tips.
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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by GosuSheep on Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:39 am

greg wrote:We don't adapt the game to the players... The players adapt to the game.

Errmph.. Players can't adapt to the game if THERE ARE NO PLAYERS. Map development doesn't work if you use black and white constructs; there are gray areas. There are more than 1 aspects of the community we must consider around every corner.

If 1 or 2 players are having trouble with a particular aspect and claim it is imbalanced, yet a bunch of others aren't, yes we tell them to get better. However, if we're making the game more user friendly, more enjoyable, and more attractive to new players, we're discussing a different part of development. It is IMPERATIVE that we bring VS out of the hole it's in. The best way to do that is to host it more and change it. Games that are never worked on don't stay popular for too long.

6) and 7) from original post are kind of connected, so I will treat them as such. Is not not necessarily important that we map the location of the keys to the location of the building in the palette (QWER, top row, ASDF, second row, ZXCV third row). It is only important that we HAVE HOTKEYS for all buildings (vault does not have one) and that they are on the left side of the keyboard:
q,w,e,r,t,a,s,d,f,g,z,x,c,v,b.

Also, there is a certain skill and finesse to using two builders. I have, on several occasions, used multiple builders to trick the vamp out of my base after already breaking in. I also find it important to have a human in one area, while my goldmine builder is in another. I am not sure what the best solution is, but I do believe that revamping is in order. Perhaps I will go over all the builds and outline a different kind of system. For instance:

Human, goldmine builder, tower builder, advanced structure builder.
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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by alvinchiew on Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:41 am

so meaning from human builder, super builder and goblin builder to categorize them you separate them to 1 extra builders? with the changes of the Hotkeys we have to put our little and ring finger to use? ( kindly do understand we memories the Hotkeys by their initials, example Tents is like B T, House B H ) how bout letting some of the players try this out, and see how they react to the new system before it's really implanted.

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by GosuSheep on Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:58 am

No Alvin, I am not necessarily saying 1 more extra builder. I am just discussing something different; what that is, we don't know yet. It shouldn't be too hard to type even BQ. We shouldn't have problems with hotkeys on the left side of the keyboard. Also, BH for house is a terrible hotkey because pressing BH, then something else quickly, is physically hindering.

Players should be able to adapt to something like BW for house like they adapted to BR for goldmine. No problem.
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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by alvinchiew on Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:05 am

aaa, ok, we could find some beta testers and see their comments~

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by mamangan on Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:18 pm

I think changes to make the game more popular is a must. Being newbie friendly is one of the best ways to get more people playing, but without compromising good players is another thing. I guess greg is right, but for the sake of going to a better placement, the game must adapt to NEW players.

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by alvinchiew on Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:24 am

Lazy don't even wanna learn how the item works and just simply ban them kind of new players?

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by -GoG-|Clone on Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:49 am

6)Try to make build menu of humans easier.

(Remove useless buildings such as Tents, make a upgrade that could be used to unlock buildings such as high level walls,towers,and goldmines.Also maybe make Hotkeys into qwer or zxcv format so its easier to micro)

Anyway,don't u guys just feel stupid? o.0 now already have warkeys. and warkeys can help alot wif changing ur hotkeys. why don't u guys just go try to download on it? and try it? im using warkey to change my hotkey also

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by -GoG-|Clone on Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:54 am

alvin = . = when i nt here dun try geh c geh c write something at forum arks >_<

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by alvinchiew on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:12 pm

=.=.............. geh c geh c??? i dunno whats that =.=....

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by GosuSheep on Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:33 pm

gog wrote:Anyway,don't u guys just feel stupid? o.0 now already have warkeys. and warkeys can help alot wif changing ur hotkeys. why don't u guys just go try to download on it? and try it? im using warkey to change my hotkey also

Autohotkey is far superior to warkeys.

The point is to make it easier for new players. If a new player has to download a 3rd party program for a game to be good, it's a bad game. Don't you just feel stupid?
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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by -GoG-|Clone on Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:03 pm

GosuSheep, as if u change the key ~ alot will be quiting VPS. dun u just feel stupid if like that? lol

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by Greg on Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:32 am

I guess it is a smart thing to change the map to be more noob friendly but I think that we should not change the keys unless something is very bad with it.

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

Post by v^ps.Light on Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:02 pm

Eh dumbassking i seriously am thinking that ur way is going to fail, u make nicer tooltip but worst graphics that hurts the game even more and that te repair canot be nerfed, u can tink of nerfing the vamp att spd AND fer the lich that is the most important part DO NOT THINK THAT IT IS USELESS, it can carry v3 and v3x and claw and heart it's likie 1/2 of a full vamp it can transfer item it's nt abt the skill although the skills is kinda gud and for number 1 point, it suxs if vamp get 3 kitty asnd bombard ur base u lose. it;s the lag and the pain that save u from the vamp feel free to come contact me we can share our ideas

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Re: Planned Changes...once sammm gets back and we talk...

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