At the time SaMmM comes back ...

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At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by mamangan on Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:41 pm

At the time SaMmM comes back ... we better prepare our suggestions.

I was thinking if we can create a topic where everyone gets to vote if a suggestion is good or not. People who decide in potential implementations are our forum mods and staff.

So anyone into this?

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by DEAncientNaga on Mon May 02, 2011 11:49 pm

Woot! SaMmM is back! Great news, I've always waiting for this moment...

OffTopic: http://www.NagaWar.tk , my Vamp guide is back Smile I will make more guides soon, stay tuned...
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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by mamangan on Tue May 03, 2011 12:27 am

u sure? how do u know?

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by DEAncientNaga on Tue May 03, 2011 12:48 am

Woot! = What!

I'm not meaning I know that...he needs to stay in military for 2 years...

Yes, he rarely visited here, you can check
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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by mamangan on Wed May 04, 2011 1:24 pm

anyways, on topic, i need other than me and deancientnaga to organize a suggestions portfolio, so pls. anyone there who would like to help?

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by DEAncientNaga on Fri May 13, 2011 4:01 pm

Put my guide on loading screen and in-game, how's the idea?

Here are the links:
Vampirism Speed Guide links (all of them may work):
http://www.NagaWar.tk
http://www.VampirismSpeed.tk
http://ancientwar.forums3.com
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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by mamangan on Sun May 15, 2011 3:44 pm

@ englocked, debatable propositions.

The End must be the end, thats a good one.
I use lag, but around 4 towers is no good, maybe around 10 max?
Ensnare issue needs more discussion, not all games reach more than 30 minutes, very few ones can get to that time as for my experience.

@deancientnaga, i'll see yours later.

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by Englocked on Mon May 16, 2011 2:16 am

10 towers is fine as well. But something must be done about oracle towers as they are the one that cause the most lag and they can easily trigger the graphic bug (didn't test but I think 10 level 3 is enough for that matter), maybe make only comet available or change the way oracle works.

There's no need for a 30 minuts game for ensnare to be broken. 8 level 1 slayers (4 humans teaming) can pretty much perma-ensnare the vamp right as he spawn. Of course, as slayers level up, that is getting worse and worse.
Ensnare last 5 seconds, we have to make it impossible for slayers to perma ensnare. We could make the vamp immune to ensnare for 8 sec when ensnare is cast on him (no idea if possible?). That way he could only be ensnared ~5/8 of the time regardless of the numbers of slayers.

There are also 2 things I just remembered that absolutely need fixing

1st one is the abom "meat hook" glitch that not only is unfair but also cause the game to crash sometimes.

2nd one is another glitch that vamp can use to get as much gold as he wants. (I won't get into the details here for obvious reasons)

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by mamangan on Mon May 16, 2011 1:30 pm

I believe it is possible to code that the unit cannot be ensnared continuously, i saw it in other maps possible.

the pudge is also a big thing to discuss. but in the time the vamp never gets a feed at all, no players giving him even a blood box, its the only way to get feed. I would suggest that there should be a purchase cooldown but it should be alot tougher.

never seen vamp getting gold by himself, but that is practically a cheat, removal is a must.

Edit: @ deancientnaga

i scanned in nagawar.tk and its good, I already posted some replies. You may also need to make guides for vamp, you are very human-sided ahahaha.

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by Englocked on Tue May 17, 2011 6:52 am

Meat hook glitch was never intended and should be fixed. It's fun but way too overpowered and it makes the game crash

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by DEAncientNaga on Wed May 18, 2011 3:17 pm

mamangan wrote:Edit: @ deancientnaga

i scanned in nagawar.tk and its good, I already posted some replies. You may also need to make guides for vamp, you are very human-sided ahahaha.
Thanks mamangan.

I'm not human sided lah...lol

Actually vampires have tactics can stall the game become no ending...

Can I list you moderator in my forum? So you could help me to manage my forum >.<

My forum get comment by someone and says "crap"...

Kindly reply.
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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by mamangan on Wed May 18, 2011 11:32 pm

@ englocked

in the game context i have in garena ph, rarely do i see the pudge trick, if they plan to do it, it usually is lategame where pudge dies as it spawns from my towers or slayers.

@ deancientnaga

i can't be mod there, i respectfully decline. its 2 weeks before i go back to school and so this is my most available time to organize a portfolio. then i would rarely visit when school starts.

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by Englocked on Thu May 19, 2011 4:28 am

Well these aren't reasons not to fix it. On the other hand the fact that it is imbalanced and make the game crash are.

Another issue to fix :

Vamp demonic transformation (it reset stats to like 35k, so if u have more, u actually lose stats)

Something I'd like to be changed :

I feel like killing humans in general should not be such a disadvantage for vamp. I know sammm already adressed this by increasing the bounty for killing humans as the game progress but I think it's far from enough.
To further decrease this disadvantage I suggest that when a human leaves or dies, his buildings and units stay in the game for some time (1 minut?). Mini vamp will spawn after this.

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by mamangan on Thu May 19, 2011 3:31 pm

the pudge issue cannot be solved by just the two of us, we will need others to discuss on this issue.

i see games that the transformation overrides all stats, but there are a few which just gives bonuses rather overriding, i think SaMmM can code this?

i have experienced humans leaving as the front wall breaks. leaving the buildings would put humans at great disadvantage. I would prefer so that if a vamp gets to hit any human structure/unit in the last 5 seconds then the human leaves, vamp gets the same amount of bounty in killing the human.

as for a suicide, i think its all up to the vamp to react fast not to hit the human until so all the feed in the base is destroyed.

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by Englocked on Fri May 20, 2011 1:07 am

mamangan wrote:leaving the buildings would put humans at great disadvantage.
Yeah of course it would, it's the point of vamp destroying human's bases isn't it? Notice that the disadvantage for humans is way smaller than if said human just stayed in the game and tries to rebuild somewhere else.
I doesn't even make it fair for vamps, this is just the bare minimum imo.

mamangan wrote:as for a suicide, i think its all up to the vamp to react fast not to hit the human until so all the feed in the base is destroyed.
I don't think that's alright, not only does it take way too long to clean up a base this way but it's hard to do and in some bases it's actually impossible due to builder blocking off the entrance. Also it feels wrong the vamp has to keep the human alive at all cost when the ultimate goal is to kill humans.

That makes me think about another thing that bothers me : Vamps and vamps units AI.

I think their attack priorities should be removed, just make them attack what is near them.
Vamps units should not target main builders, it causes them to get stuck and do nothing. And assassin should attack harvesters automatically.



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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by mamangan on Fri May 20, 2011 11:22 pm

I believe I had already put a resolve on humans leaving, giving the supposed bounty for killing a human if vamp hits any structure for the last 5 seconds(we can increase the time). The same should go from kicks and self-done quit.

The ultimate goal is to kill humans, yes that is true. But vamp should think of a way in order to assure that all humans can be killed in the process. Investing for the future by destroying feed first before the human is much better, specially in cases where you will need the gold in killing other humans within good bases.

Targeting priority code can be easily changed, but again its still all up to you whether you let your vampire kill the human or not.

I think the vamp and its units prioritize targeting the main human, maybe SaMmM is too lazy to code each unit.


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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by DEAncientNaga on Sat May 21, 2011 11:53 am

@Englocked

I rather not to evolve to demonic vamp Wink

@mamangan

The pudge trick commonly appears in PH. I visited there last week, tell you what, just a feeders country :S
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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by mamangan on Sun May 22, 2011 1:00 am

Its all about luck in facing good players in garena. I went to malaysia and singapore room for the last 3 days, same experience you had, lots of feeders. rarely have i seen that all players are good enough that vamp only has boots, concotion and urn.

i have observed that the pudge trick comes in play when it is already lategame here in PH, though I haven't used it at all because I'm a manly vamp, getting the walls destroyed first is what I do.

lvl 100 vamp has imcomparable skill, the demonic power is like having another kitty just without the stats and does not require another slot.


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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by DEAncientNaga on Sun May 22, 2011 2:10 am

Crap...I'm living in Malaysia too, I'm consider as feeder?

Singapore has lots of good players, thumbs up

Pudge so weak, easily get killed. Just put few wards around your base or you build 2 CC + 1 BoO, spam reveal function to keep the whole map visible.

Some Malaysians taunt me and they think they can end me with few comets ==" Pros extinct, noobs say I use hack, they ban me all the time.

I hope SaMmM make final version ASAP, so I can play my game properly.

Why no one join my 2.48d game? Many cheated maps exist. they think 2.48e(New) / 2.48e(P) or such rubbish is latest version...
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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by Englocked on Sun May 22, 2011 8:50 am

mamangan wrote:I believe I had already put a resolve on humans leaving, giving the supposed bounty for killing a human if vamp hits any structure for the last 5 seconds(we can increase the time). The same should go from kicks and self-done quit.
Well I guess that'd be a step in the right direction but far from enough.

I just got another idea : what about increasing the amount of feed (maybe by 10%) vamp get for every human that leaves or get killed.
Picture a game with 10 humans the feed is 100%, right? If one happens to leave, it drops to 90% but since all other humans are now giving +110% instead of 100% the total feed is now 9 humans x 11% = 99%. We keep adding 10% for every human that leaves or die. That gives us 8x12% = 96%, 7x13%= 91%, etc.
Notice that killing humans still does decrease vamp potential feed but instead of 100%, 90%, 80%, 70%, 60% we have 100%, 99%, 96%, 91%, 84%.. wich seems more fair to me. Vamp would also collect feed faster the more humans he kills wich makes sense to me. What do you think?

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by mamangan on Tue May 24, 2011 7:49 pm

@ deancientnaga

That was not my point, i never said those countries are all feeders, i just said alot of feeders, i also get to play who did a fast CC and BoO with right anti-sin.

@ englocked

how about giving a fraction of the feed of what the human has left putting into consideration the amount of humans. say there are 10 humans and so when 1 quits, it gives 1/10 of supposed feed. then another quits, 1/9 then so on and so forth. If 2 humans are left and one quits, vamp gets 1/2 the supposed feed. how about this?

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by Englocked on Wed May 25, 2011 12:27 pm

Why not, but I think it's way too little. If 9 humans leaves, vamp would get like 20% of the actual feed

What about 20% for the 1st human that quits/dies (assuming 10 humans), then 30% for the 2nd, 40% for the third,..., 100% for the 9th. That's 60% total.

I would be happy with 100% for each human though as I think humans leaving should not disadvantage the vamps (I can't think of any other game where allies leaving gets you closer to victory). I guess the insta-feed would counter balance the fact that the source of income is gone.

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by mamangan on Fri May 27, 2011 2:18 am

actually my point of not leaving any structure is that it also gives experience (though very little i think) to the vamp. It was 61%! Nonetheless what you said could be balance enough.

I do know some games that leaving puts you in a better situation because you become a burden, though it may seem very unethical that you cannot accept the fact that the vamp can own you.

Other thing I would like to discuss is on how some bases are invulnerable from chain lightnings and graves if proper blocks are placed. I think that should be changed.

Another is on slayers. If so the vamp is progressing in the same rate as the humans, without a doubt the slayers are good source of feed. I mean like if the humans have an onyx wall, so as the vamp has a kitty, I would bet a slayer would die in one hit, if it were a critical. I believe that the concept for humans in lategame (after everyone gets BoO) is dealing damage rather than tanking. Can we change so that the humans' slayers cut some HP in exchange of more damage?

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Re: At the time SaMmM comes back ...

Post by mamangan on Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:23 am

any other comments, i would like to know what you guys think.

anyways here are other issues that may need discussion. can we cut the number of goldmines? i think i already have seen a discussion on it but i would like to also have it here. i would think that 50 per class of gms is fair enough? except diamond mines of course.

i was thinking that purity wall should be changed with another type of wall. its aura is not defensive at all. i would suggest that there be an aura tower for damage.

i always see so that if a human is killed and gets to play as a vamp in lategame, its a sure dead vamp. i would suggest that the mini-vamp would be invulnerable for the first 10 sec to atleast get boots and concotion. another is possible gold or item given to the mini-vamp, the lowest possible farmed gold for a vamp may be sufficient?

lastly i was thinking of 2 optional modes which requires all players voting, if even one has a different answer, the mode is not implemented. 1st mode in my mind is "-prohuman". so if human players are so good, the vamp gets a lot more benefits than normal, like more autogold and higher bounty for units. and so its counterpart "-provamp", its the other way around, like lesser autogold and lesser bounty for units.


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