Better Human Defense

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Better Human Defense

Post by GosuSheep on Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:03 am

I have played with many people, but I have not seen many players really advance their defenses. In this thread, I will explain a couple ways that I beef up my defenses.

Slayer Buff
In the beginning of the game, do not get 1 slayer; get a male AND a female slayer. Put them to the pool ASAP so they BOTH can get some levels. It's really sad to hear that some people don't get slayers (gr3g-.-). They are vital for defense AND offense.

Ability Distribution: (in this order)
1 to Protection (good early counter vamp)
1 to Ensnare (can save you if you use it correctly)
5 to Engineers (minimum required for 3 engineers to spawn)
Rest to Avatar and +Stats

With 2 slayers, this gives you an extremely long invulnerability time and a increase of 6 ranged repairers if they are needed. The stats make it extremely easy to kill a vamp (especially with 2 slayers) when you upgrade the 300gold damage bonus, and the stats increase your health, making it more difficult to kill your slayers.

Max Healing Towers
I'm sure you have noticed that all units have a limit. However, if you upgrade or get rid of a unit, that count goes down and the limit goes away. So when you upgrade healing towers, get more of the lower tier towers.

For example: In the beginning, get 2 level1 healing towers. Upgrade both of them to level2, then get 2 more level1 towers.
You can also do this for super healing towers. Get 2 level3 super healing towers, 2 level2 super healing towers, and 2 level1 super healing towers. This REALLY helps keeping the health of your main wall up.
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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by !|cff0000ffClue on Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:47 am

It is true that slayers are good, but players have a different opinion. Both Greg and I, play on early Base of Ops. If you train slayers, we can get Base of Ops at least 1 minute before you, which makes a major advantage for us since we can build End Game Walls, which are much stronger than your Slayer.
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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by rqx on Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:46 pm

I am usually lazy with getting my slayer out. It does help with defending the shade teleport as I have noticed. If you train two slayers in the first few minutes you should be careful since that's easy gold for the pulse staff.

There are a few elements that a human should focus on in base defense over and above the strength of the main wall...

1. Shade/tele proofing: are there any holes in your base that shades can go through?
2. Blink proofing: can the vamp blink into your base?
3. Tree proofing: can the vamp cut a tree and walk or blink into your base?
4. Assassin proofing: can the vamp take your workers out?
5. Burst/Ricochet/etc proofing (mid game): are your walls/towers reinforced to withstand the burst, rico, bin laden?
6. V3 proofing (late game): can the vamp use a rocket to take out a main/retaining wall and teleport in?
7. V3x proofing (late game): can the vamp take your human out with a v3x? (missile defense?)

You can build more aggressively to deter the vamp from capitalizing from any inherent weaknesses of your base. It's sort of like building a good house. Everything should be considered.

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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by !|cff0000ffClue on Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:47 pm

LOL, well said rqx, but vampires are played by humans. We can think of a way to force your strong point to be one of your ultimate weaknesses.
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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by GosuSheep on Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:06 am

Clue, you're just.... wrong.

The people who play with me know that I get my first slayer out in under 50 seconds. What this means is that I start getting lumber faster than anyone. I'm extremely quick.

Also, how can you conclude that me spending 4400 more lumber than you will lead you to a BaseOfOps ONE MINUTE before me?
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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by Greg on Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:41 am

Lol... That makes no sense that it would make a difference... And yea he gets his slayer under 50 ive played with him a couple times...

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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by rqx on Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:57 am

!|cff0000ffClue wrote:LOL, well said rqx, but vampires are played by humans. We can think of a way to force your strong point to be one of your ultimate weaknesses.
Duh, this thread is about human strategy.. The vamp would have to be pretty good or level 100 to kill you if you made a base close to perfection with no obvious openings. But, no matter how good or strong your base is, an opening can always be figured out and broken in to if the vamp knows his limits and what he's doing/has the right feed. This info is probably best saved for vamp strategy Cool

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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by Englocked on Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:28 am

GosuSheep wrote:
Also, how can you conclude that me spending 4400 more lumber than you will lead you to a BaseOfOps ONE MINUTE before me?

Because if you're making slayers, you can't make as much harvesters as you could without slayers.

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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by !|cff0000ffClue on Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:17 pm

GosuSheep wrote:Clue, you're just.... wrong.

The people who play with me know that I get my first slayer out in under 50 seconds. What this means is that I start getting lumber faster than anyone. I'm extremely quick.

Also, how can you conclude that me spending 4400 more lumber than you will lead you to a BaseOfOps ONE MINUTE before me?
Since you're training a slayer from the start, then there would be roughly 5 minutes of lumber harvesting from high lvl harvesters which will provide me roughly 30 more ULTRA gold mines which will speed up my process much faster than you.

Oh and I forgot to mention, before when I still train slayers, I only take 42 seconds to train my slayer.
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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by GosuSheep on Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:31 am

Your "rough" numbers are complete nonsense...

Let's play a game together yeh?

Furthermore, the 42 seconds slayer is not only difficult, but it's borderline impossible.

My friend chakra made a script to teleport, build, enable autoharvest, etc. He gets slayer in 46 seconds.

I think you're lying.
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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by NightWish. on Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:36 am

or or or your friend is just noob..... yea i like this option.
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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by Greg on Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:57 am

No Chakra is not noob... And Clue cant play in West sad... He is to poor to go buy an official COPY!!...

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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by Englocked on Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:01 am

I tried and got 46 seconds but it doesn't seem impossible to beat. 42 seconds is impressive though. Anyway I think it's not useful to get lumber as fast as possible, imo you have to place your harvesters in a perfect position so you'll get more lumber in the long term..
let's start a new record! I get command center at 6'30" without killing vamp or pooling, who can beat that ? Smile

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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by Greg on Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:00 pm

I think it would be impossible to do it that fast... Got to see it to believe it though...

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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by Englocked on Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:20 pm

You're talking about slayer timing or cc timing?

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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by Greg on Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:22 pm

Slayer in the 42 seconds.

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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by GosuSheep on Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:10 pm

Timing isn't everything. A lot of the time, I would rather up my defense then get quick offense. Also, I'm starting to ensnare harass the vamp a lot. Stalls me, but stalls them more!!
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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by Greg on Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:15 pm

Lol... Net is really useful... Its Net because ensnare attacks also...

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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by Englocked on Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:41 pm

Net is quite unfair to be honest, with some high level slayers it's possible to immobilize the vamp permanently. And also it cancels lich rain of ice Sad(
Would be nice if immunity shield would give immunity versus net!

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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by GosuSheep on Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:46 pm

Just ran a script that teleported me, built my base, got tent, etc.etc.etc.

So it's probably about about 1 or 2 seconds off from the fastest possible. I got 42 seconds.
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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by NightWish. on Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:25 pm

so basicly you hacked the map and added a script to it we got a hacker here
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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by !|cff0000ffClue on Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:35 pm

He said run a script, which means external injection. I do not think it is illegal since he did not take his time to uncover internal sources of the map.
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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by Greg on Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:57 pm

Well... Its sorta illegal... Its a 3rd party program... And you can get banned from them on Wc... but they really haven't even banned me for bot and they say they are banning for bots...

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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by GosuSheep on Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:00 am

Englocked,
we are talking about onset of training slayer.

Clue,
in a game with 2 good vamps, the chances that you'll get a base of operations are slim to none if you don't have a slayer.

I created and ran a script. Similar to running a batch file, this script just use window's commands. Something along these lines:

Code:

<Type n> (for blink)
<click on position X,Y> (to move to base)
{
<Type bh> (for build house)
<click on position X,Y> (to place house)
} Repeat this 5 times. Takes about .3 seconds.
etc.
etc.

You will not be banned for using this kind of stuff. Terms state that you can be banned for using programs like these, but they really won't ban you. Blizzard doesn't care about hotkey mapping and binding and they allow it at WCGs and BlizzCon.

My conclusion is this: Slayers are extremely important for survival and can lead you to a vamp kill. If any of you still believe that not getting a slayer gives you an advantage in resources or time-management, please... Play with me. I will prove you wrong.
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Re: Better Human Defense

Post by !|cff0000ffClue on Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:09 pm

GosuSheep wrote:Clue,
in a game with 2 good vamps, the chances that you'll get a base of operations are slim to none if you don't have a slayer.
Actually my chances are quite high. I've manage to win a game of 2 ancient, 4 mini(went for suicidal at 3rd minute after feeding) together with my partner(the dude who I trained) in a cybercafe, and won with 7 EG walls, 36 EG comets lvl 3 at vampire's base.

*P.S;
They are not noobs. They know item builds, and assassin usage together with V3x+Soul Burn.
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