60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by !|cff0000ffClue on Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:19 pm

Englocked wrote:
!|cff0000ffClue wrote:
Human reaction takes roughly 0.7 second to respond, which I get the information from my brother, a psychologist. Universal blink takes at least 1 full second. Even if you used shift function, it would not be fast enough, instead slow it down. I have already tried and proven it through the best human i know, which takes 0.2 second to reach and steal a coin from a building in vampirism fire. He could not grab the item i dropped.

Human reaction takes roughly 0.7 second to respond and your friend manage to reach and steal a coin in 0.2 second. That doesn't make sense unless
1) your friend is not human (not likely)
2) your brother was wrong about 0.7 second (likely, just looked in wikipedia : Mean simple reaction time for young adults is approximately 190 milliseconds for visual stimulus)

But what makes even less sense is that your friend can grab coin in 0.2 second and can't steal your items while you drop them and heal. Universal blink seem to take a bit more time than in fire, ok let's say it takes one second in speed and 0 second in Fire (that's wong though, universal blink takes some time in Vamp fire as well). Since your friend takes 0.2 second to steal in Vamp. Fire, he should logically take 1.2 second to steal in Speed.
So I don't really get how you can prevent him from getting your items, unless you are faster than that but you said already that it takes you 2 seconds.
A professional Vampirism Fire player can estimate 99% on which building drops coins, but they cannot estimate when a player would drop his items. That is the main reason why he cannot fly beside me fast enough. His record to reach and take my item was at least 2.4 sec
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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by Englocked on Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:35 pm

Still, a situation with slayer selected and blink already activated (only one more click to actually blink) following your vampire thanks to reveal is not that different from stealing coins in vampirism fire :
In both situations, you don't know when the gold is going to drop.
In vamp fire, you do know the exact position where the gold could drop (obviously from a building the vamp is attacking). In Speed though you don't know exactly where the item is going to be dropped, you only know that it's going to appear next to the vampire.
But that difference in my opinion cannot explain a reaction time jumping from 0.2 sec to 2.4 sec.
My guess is that your friend is not used to steal your items in vampirism speed, I think that if he was as alert as he is when he's trying to steal coins in vampirism fire, he would steal your items with ease. Or maybe you just had a better delay when you guys tried that.

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by !|cff0000ffClue on Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:59 pm

Englocked wrote:Still, a situation with slayer selected and blink already activated (only one more click to actually blink) following your vampire thanks to reveal is not that different from stealing coins in vampirism fire :
In both situations, you don't know when the gold is going to drop.
In vamp fire, you do know the exact position where the gold could drop (obviously from a building the vamp is attacking). In Speed though you don't know exactly where the item is going to be dropped, you only know that it's going to appear next to the vampire.
But that difference in my opinion cannot explain a reaction time jumping from 0.2 sec to 2.4 sec.
My guess is that your friend is not used to steal your items in vampirism speed, I think that if he was as alert as he is when he's trying to steal coins in vampirism fire, he would steal your items with ease. Or maybe you just had a better delay when you guys tried that.
I have explained this and I'll explain again.
1. In Speed, you'll need to wait until the vampire drops before you blink or you'll die for nothing.
2. Blinking takes time.
3. Human has a delay in reaction, and its not like your body will automatically move once you see, you'll think to click and then you will, which makes it at least 2.7s for normal people, and he is a professional which enabled him to reach a limit of 2.4s. My record was 2.9s which is way longer than him, counting that those milliseconds could change a major outcome.
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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by Englocked on Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:34 am

It's ok, don't bother explaining again. We just disagree, end of story.

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by !|cff0000ffClue on Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:30 am

Speechless, but I do agree that this fight is meaningless since you think its possible, while human limitation says no.
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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by izukimoto on Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:08 pm

The fight was kool!! =)
Very Happy its like hearing a debate from 2 teachers...

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by Kurisu on Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:09 am

It may be a little late to say this, but there would be an easy way out of your predicament.

Get rid of concoction, teleport, and the tiger claws. Get mask of insanity instead of mask of undeath, and get 4 kitty claws.

Kitty claw multiplier stacks. So lets say you have 4 kitty claws. The 4x multiplier on buildings (correct me if I am wrong, I think it is higher) with just 10k attack (you will get more from kitties) will give you a large boost in dmg against a wall.

4x4x4x4x10000

Tiger claws DO NOT STACK WITH EACH OTHER.

Therefore, tiger claws are a waste of time.

If they are still recieving a large amount of dmg, get another mask of undeath. It helps a lot.

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by iLawlAtYou on Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:44 am

The multiplier from tiger claws do stack.

Kitty and tiger claw is both based off demolish, when stacks with each other.

Rod of teleportation, upgraded into a spirit, is not useless.

The teleport skill can save you when you're dying, and if the opponent is the type that likes to mass gold mines, every time you kill the goldmines, you'll recover 2% of your max hp.

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by Kurisu on Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:15 am

Tiger claw only stacks once. Yes, you can get 2 tiger claws and get the bonuses, but afterwards they don't continue to stack, for some reason kitty claw stacks afterwards.

If you already have the most items you can, don't get the teleportation. You obviously aren't winning, and were going to die anyways, if you couldn't win after that, then you would lose anyways. So, having the ability to run away would be useless, because you aren't getting any stronger if you can't kill anything anyways. So teleportation is USELESS at this point.

Funny, when it comes to vampires' strategies, you are the only one to challenge me. >.<

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by [X3]RoXaS on Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:05 pm

nope, spirit is useful when deal with gm wall

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by iLawlAtYou on Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:17 pm

When you can 2 hit kill most walls, people aren't going to try to stop you with walls.

They build Gold Mines.

Why? Cause when you destroy 1 goldmine, your vampire goes off to attack the towers that are attacking you (towers have higher attack priority than mines), making it extremely annoying for the vamp.

Coupled with around 30 end game comets, which will tear away the vampire's hp (even with 2 mask of insanity), the 2% hp regen per kill is absolutely necessary.

The optimal vampire build (level 100, after transformation):

Mask of Insanity
Shield of Immunity
Spirit
2 Tiger/Kitties
Conc / Doom Armor's Upgrade / Another Mask of Insanity

Plus various upgrades from the research center.

I'm arguing with your strategy because i believe its wrong. Nothing else.

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by Kurisu on Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:13 pm

I play a lot, and from expeirience I know I am not wrong.

To kill gold mine walls it is simple, use the hold position hotkey. You can rip through 200 gold mines quickly.

Last time I have EVER had to get to transformation to kill a human was when I first started. It isn't a requirement, or necessity. It is a nice bonus.

PLUS, my build ISN'T for level 100 vamps, I don't plan on their being any. There is no need for kitty claw stack if you have transformation, because transformation ALREADY gives you a hefty bonus.

Dual mask of insanity, that is redundant by the way, the cooldowns aren't separate, if you use one, the other one goes on cooldown. I would recommend just getting either A another kitty, or B a level 4 shield. Evasion/Damage reduction doesn't stack, just the armor.

If you can't get through the first wall anyways (per this scenario) what is the point in the spirit, you won't get much if his first wall stops you. The primary objective is to slow them down.

Another trick, distraction!

Build a large shade army and max out defense, go and attack one person, and attack the other with vamp.

Get a lich and use v3x, the shades will have one distracted and same with the other. Make sure you kill the guy that is giving you the most trouble.

There are a million ways out of it, and I don't lose much, so I know I am not wrong ^.^

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by MysteriousMan on Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:42 am

You guys shouldn't argue with kurisu. im pretty sure he has played more Vampirism Speed then all of you.He is very good so don't doubt him he knows what he his talking about.
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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by iLawlAtYou on Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:57 am

People don't stack goldmines on the same place you know?

2 Mask of Insanity isn't for the illusions. Its for the armor bonus.

Level 100 vamp's bonus is around the same as a kitty claw. It saves an inventory slot.

Why would you want another kitty? 2 kitty with the transformation (which sort of makes 3) is enough to kill all walls. At this point, you need to survive. The reason why i said to get a mask of insanity is because it gives the most armor (1200).

"I know i'm not wrong" is not a good argument.

I know i'm not wrong also.

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by [X3]RoXaS on Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:35 pm

yes dun forget 2 lvl 40 slayers combination with unknown wall will make vamp stuck inside the place and make vamp die if in mass comet if vamp dun have rod of teleportion/spirit.

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by Kurisu on Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:00 pm

Lawl, You need to play vamp speed to be able to talk strategies. I have the experience AND the knowledge. You have just the knowledge. >.<

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by [X3]RoXaS on Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:38 pm

nope since your straz isn't for lvl 100 vamp, the vamp with wont witstand the damage from 30+ super comet tower. slayers ulti make almost the human's wall armor invul at full time.

Plus, when vamp armor invul the shade will be dead meat.

The v3x will miss the target when the human's gender was change.

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by iLawlAtYou on Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:45 pm

Kurisu wrote:Lawl, You need to play vamp speed to be able to talk strategies. I have the experience AND the knowledge. You have just the knowledge. >.<

Oh, i see, a direct insult to my playing skill huh?

I play vamp speed.

I've tried your strategy when i first started.

And now, i have improved.

Talk gets no where.

Lets play.

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by [X3]RoXaS on Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:17 pm

fapper, once he reached singapore room play, can you come malaysia fufu ninja room 2 call me. Very Happy

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by Kurisu on Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:24 pm

How could you possibly change my strategy, and how could we possibly measure a way to judge who is the better vampire?

If you can find a way tell me.

Oh and the reason I said you don't play is because I have read posts by you:


I don't have to play VS to discuss on the strategies. Lol.

I don't play dota.

I quit vamp speed for FoC, not dota.

Lets not get off topic, shall we?

If I had known you played I would have said something else lol.

Tell me if you find a way to play me as a vamp. If you start getting on battle.net again, try and catch me in my channel, I will be there sometimes. (xD) if Not leave a message and I will try to get on at the same time you left the message.

But I would LOVE to see how you play and how well you perform as vamp. That way we can finish this dispute of strategies ;D

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by iLawlAtYou on Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:16 am

No battle.net until i get my real W3 this summer.

How about Garena?

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by Kurisu on Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:58 am

Hmmm, I don't have garena, pm me how to get it (too lazy to google, I am going to breakfast with some people right now.)

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

Post by iLawlAtYou on Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:38 pm

www.garena.com?

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Re: 60k+ gold as vamp and still losing

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