SaMmM: 80 second onset for Worker Motivation

SaMmM,

In response to changing Worker Motivation onset to 80 seconds:

Perhaps you believe that because some players don't get worker motivation at all, that the 80 second onset won't hurt them. Perhaps you believe that if all the humans upgrade Worker Motivation that the vamps are screwed. Whatever the reason, I would like you to reconsider this. I understand the concern that vamps can be easily overpowered if the humans know what they're doing, but I believe that you are looking at the equation the wrong way. In the instance that vamps seem to be underpowered, they should not be buffed, the host should change the setup. I know that a LOT of hosts only allow 1 vamp. It seems that I'm the only host on west that plays with 2 vamps. Perhaps players just need to get used to 2 vamps or get used to using other, more advanced strategies.

Vamp Speed seems to have 1 system in particular. There are an extraordinary amount of tricks that the vamp can use to gain resources and chip away at the humans' defenses. The other side of this system is that every trick that the vamp has, the humans have a counter to it. Preventing the humans from getting worker motivation before the vamp can reach their harvesters seems unfair. Why should players that work hard to counter the vamps' tactics be penalized? I see it as if the vamps are smarter and better than the humans, they will win. It should not be that the humans have no counter to a tactic.

Please reconsider your idea about changing Worker Motivation onset. I believe it will hurt a lot more than it helps.

-Gosu

agreed 2 vamps ftw

I voted yes, I think vamps could use a little help to get feed early game vs good humans. A 20 seconds windows to be able to kill harvesters is not much but it is better than nothing.

What about making healing towers require vault, so 2 vamps could break in bases early as long as 3-4 humans don't repair wall.

Englocked wrote:What about making healing towers require vault, so 2 vamps could break in bases early as long as 3-4 humans don't repair wall.

you always play VS as vamp??? healing tower is an advantage (not a major one) for human soloing, if you ask your human partner in the game for help, some doesn't even care. ok lets imagine after he put 2 graves near the base, without Health tower ( early game ) for killing the harvesters and also at the same time hurting ur human builder + CL, it pains the human builder alot without health tower in early game

Hmm you're right, I didn't think about that. I'll change my suggestion a bit then : make heal towers not able to heal wall before human get vault. When human has vault, he can research an upgrade (~5k wood) in his center to make heal towers able to heal walls.

And if vamps are teaming, you have to assume humans can team up as well.
I think it's fair if a human soloing gets overwhelmed at early game by 2 vamps trying to break his base

that's the point coz i always solo haha xD

well... i share my base with 3 people's at a time... ;D if i died.. whole game gg...

hehe ;D

Gippal =.= when the hell you got share with 3 people =.= i never saw it

last time..dont you remember how i started building my base below yours?

i share it with 2 newbies & 1 people who just let their base destroyed by vamp... the 3rd game i died by v3...

making the others died too.. ;D cos im the only 1 building the wall... ~_~

oo oo.... =.=..... u allow ppl to build at ur base not sharing la xDDD....... but back to topic, you prefer it to stay it as 55 sec or 80 sec???

I vote yes, but instead of 80 seconds, I would choose a limit of upgrade which leaves the workers with 1650hp max.

increasing the time for Human Motivation upgrade is ok, but still i don't agree with worker max up to 1650 hp only, i play both as vampire and human, so i would know a thing or 2 with the balancing, ok like u say normal harvester hp up to 1650, for the furborg it would just have 3200 hp ( if not mistaken ) simply with a lvl 6~7 chain with graves, 2 chain would simply farm u tthose yummy furbolgs, PS i am a CL user

Healing towers solve and if there are 2 vamps chaining at the same time, get fangs. I don't know why you say graveS, you do know they don't stack, right?

healing towers are ok, i always go solo, and without healing walls, 1 vamp can break any walls at beggining. And work mov is ok, or maybe 30 secs, just the time for vamp to get some feed and buy urn.

ok i do know they doesn't stack, its just my habit, as i stated about 1 grave can delay the wall healing by dmg it, and CL will hurt the harvester, Chain lvl 7 is around 1.4k dmg, summore until now i rarely, RARELY sees a human player build wall of health beside the harvesters,

I usually up my worker hp till 2k . When vamp put grave and CL my level 1 workers , they wont die on the spot . I will deto all of them b4 they die .

Stick to the topic , i vote yes for 80 secs upgrade . Make the game more balance isnt it ? ^^

Please stick to the damn topic...

Also, users that believe it will make the game "more balanced" to change the worker motivation, please take the time to read my counter-example in the first post.

Something has to be changed but I think a different approach to the early game balancing may be better. Worker motivation is either researched or it is not (hit or miss) so increasing the research onset would make the vamp's luck a bigger game deciding factor. Given the map's terrain as it is now, certain corner bases/players would not be affected by this change and would make some newbs even bigger feeders.

Why not reduce the grave cooldown/onset or improve the grave by making it upgradeable for X gold? Also, the worker motivation lumber cost increment could be bumped up to +5,000-10,000 lumber per level instead of +1,000 per level as it is now to make it harder for humans to upgrade this. Just some ideas.

Also voted no to the worker motivation change as it is proposed.

rqx wrote:Something has to be changed but I think a different approach to the early game balancing may be better. Worker motivation is either researched or it is not (hit or miss) so increasing the research onset would make the vamp's luck a bigger game deciding factor. Given the map's terrain as it is now, certain corner bases/players would not be affected by this change and would make some newbs even bigger feeders.

Why not reduce the grave cooldown/onset or improve the grave by making it upgradeable for X gold? Also, the worker motivation lumber cost increment could be bumped up to +5,000-10,000 lumber per level instead of +1,000 per level as it is now to make it harder for humans to upgrade this. Just some ideas.

Also voted no to the worker motivation change as it is proposed.

At the very second vampire spawns, his dmg limit is 400. By the time 120 seconds is here, players would at least get a worker with 2150 hp.

I don't get your point.. The vampire "damage limit" is variably increased for the first 60 seconds of spawning, depending on feed and allocation of skill points. 120 seconds also opens up the grave which can further damage done to workers

rqx wrote:I don't get your point.. The vampire "damage limit" is variably increased for the first 60 seconds of spawning, depending on feed and allocation of skill points. 120 seconds also opens up the grave which can further damage done to workers

Simple to say, a vampire's chain lightning will not raise more than 400 damage until he killed some workers, and if workers' hp are limited to 1650, they would not be killed in 2 chain lightning, and if a wall of health lvl 2 is present, they are also immune to graves.

So your point is..?

rqx wrote:So your point is..?

My point is, smart humans won't lose a single worker to chain lightning. Retards will feed like there is no tomorrow.

If this change is implemented as planned, smart humans who choose to base in a central location do not have a great counter method. You can't detonate everything at once and you can't see the vamp in great advance.

I do not see how this 80 seconds is going to change much, other than giving the vamp a 25 second window to get lucky or get stuck with grave and chain-proof workers.